Can Precision Rifle muzzleloader bullets be shot with 150 grains of black powder or a blackpowder subsitute?

  What Precision Rifle muzzleloader bullet should I use?

  I have recently been presented with a TC Omega in .50 cal. I am new to muzzle loading and eagerly began searching on the internet to scrounge up whatever info I could find to try and learn how to arrive at a good hunting powder/bullet combo for white tailed deer. 

I was elated to find muzzleloadingbullets.com with all its great info and products. The "Precision Rifle Accu-Fire Breech Plugs" and "Dead Center" bullets are of particular interest. The info I have read on your site so far is specific to using the modified breech plug only with loose powder. Do you have experience with using the Pyrodex pellets? If so, can they be used at all to achieve good accuracy (let's say for argument's sake <2" groups @ 100 yds = good accuracy for deer hunting) How about with the modified breech plug and primers, will a pistol primer reliably ignite the pellets? 

I apologize if these are silly questions but please remember that I am new to muzzle loading. Don't be afraid to speak your mind directly; I won't be offended. But, I would like your opinion based on your experience please. 

Best regards, 

Ted Hicks 
1016 Shadick Road 
Ballston Spa, NY 12020

  I recently purchased some of you bullets.  I am using to 777 pellets and not getting that 1" group you talk about at R and P Muzzleloading.  Why is that?

  Yes, if your muzzleloader manufacturer says it is safe to do so.  However, just because your muzzleloader will allow you to shoot 150 grains of black powder, does not mean that is the best load to use.  In most shooting situations the first imperative is to hit where you are aiming. To accomplish this you will need to use a load that your muzzleloader likes.  This is not automatically going to be 150 grains with every bullet you choose to use.  The question that really needs to be answered is what load will give me the best possible accuracy at the distances I will be shooting and still have enough kinetic energy to get the job done?  That can only be determined through testing different weights of bullets with different amounts of powder until you find that load that is both accurate and lethal.

  This question requires additional information to answer it correctly.  What rate-or-twist does your rifle have?  At what distance will your average shot be taken?  What game will you be hunting?  Are you more concerned with weight of bullet or a flatter trajectory?  A good place to start is by determining which weights of bullets generally perform well in a rifle with your rate-of-twist.  Of course the lighter the bullet the flatter the trajectory.  Since not all muzzleloader are made exactly the same, most of the time different rifles even though the same brand, will shoot the same bullet differently.  To find the best bullet for your rifle, in the approximate weigh you are looking at using, requires testing each bullet weight with different loads of powder to see how well they will perform in your rifle.  This results in finding the bullet that your rifle likes the best.  Although your rifle may shoot most Precision Rifle muzzleloader bullets into a 2 inch group at 100 yards, you would like to find that special load that shoots into the same hole every time.  This of course is the best bullet to hunt with in most cases.

  Ted I get these questions a lot. They are not silly. Reference your question, about getting a 2" group @ 100 yards with Pyrodex pellets. The answer is maybe or it depends. I have come to believe that for a muzzleloader bullet or any bullet for that matter to achieve its best accuracy, it needs to be spinning at its optimum revolutions per second; sort of like a passed football. We all know what happen when the ball thrower or kicker achieves that optimum spin. Greater speed, distance and accuracy occur. A bullet reacts in a much similar way. Optimum spin is determined for the most part by your rifle's rate of twist and the speed the bullet passes through it. Now if you limit any given bullet to just one or two speeds will it be accurate? The answer is maybe. Will it achieve its optimum distance and accuracy? The answer is maybe also, but probably not. Do you see where I am headed here? The reason I recommend and use only loose powder is to allow the shooter and myself to determine through testing which amount of powder will produce the best or optimum results from his or her rifle and bullet combination. With a little work you can be shooting circles around most pellet users. Also, it is a lot cheaper than pellets. 

As far as ignition is concerned, we recommend CCI 400 small rifle primers for the .25 ACP brass. They will reliably ignite loose powder as well as Pyrodex pellets, but 777 pellet manufacturers recommend the 209 primer for their pellets, because they are not coated on the bottom with black powder like Pyrodex is coated. I further recommend 777 loose, because it will usually shoot accurately on a clean as well as a fouled barrel. Our tests have shown that Pyrodex does not do as well with a clean barrel. 

Now as to what powder and bullet will be a good hunting combination. That depends on the type and size game your are hunting and how long of a shot you can expect. Most of Precision Rifle's bullets will work well out to 100 yards and beyond. Which one you choose will depend on personal preference and accuracy achieved. Usually this requires testing a few different weights and even trying different types such as QTs, Dead Centers, Extreme Elites, etc. I know I am not making this easy, but that will be part of the fun; experimenting on your own. Even if I told you what should shoot well in your rifle, no two guns shoot alike, so I could easily be wrong. Every bullet I offer is capable of shooting 1" or better at a 100 yards under the right conditions.

  I get this questions a lot. Should a person be able to get a 1" group @ 100 yards with 777 pellets. The answer is maybe or it depends. I have come to believe that for a muzzleloader bullet or any bullet for that matter to achieve its best accuracy, it needs to be spinning at its optimum revolutions per second; sort of like a passed football. We all know what happen when the ball thrower or kicker achieves that optimum spin. Greater speed, distance and accuracy occur. A bullet reacts in a much similar way. Optimum spin is determined for the most part by your rifle's rate of twist and the speed the bullet passes through it. Now if you limit any given bullet to just one or two speeds will it be accurate? The answer is maybe. Will it achieve its optimum distance and accuracy? The answer is also maybe, but probably not. Do you see where I am headed here? I always recommend and use only loose powder to allow the shooter, myself included, to discover through testing which amount of powder will produce the best or optimum results from his or her rifle and bullet combination. With a little work you can be shooting circles around most pellet users. Also, the money you save using the loose powder might even pay for the bullets it took to discover that optimum load you are looking for. The bottom line I guess is don't immediately blame your rifle or bullets if when using pellets you fail to get that group you desire.